Survey on Large Scale Indoors

Written by Paul D. Race for Family Garden Trains

Folks recently complained that there weren't any FAQs on model railroading indoors with Large Scale equipment. While I don't have a Large Scale railroad inside, I can certainly see why some folks would want to do such a thing. So I asked folks who have indoor Large Scale railroads to give me some feedback on a few questions that frequently come up in this context. So far, Earl J. Chevalier, Jr., KayDee, and Noel F. Widdifield, Ric Golding, and John Ramsden have responded. I also received a few comments from Fred Mills, a Large Scale garden railroader whose "inside" experience is in smaller scales. I hope many more folks will respond as well. George Thomas (sometimes known as Stumpy) has also e-mailed me some comments which I put in the comment section at the end. George also has a web page with some photos of his (indoor) RR at http://trainweb.org/lazyacre.

As an appendix to this article, I've included a note from Ric Golding about how his HO indoor railroad became an indoor Large Scale test loop/storage track/railroad.

If you have an indoor LS railroad, please copy the questions at the end of this article and e-mail me your answers. Thanks.

Earl's, KayDee's, Noel's, Ric's, John's, and Fred's responses are as follows:

Anything special about the benchwork, scenery?

Make it very sturdy so you can walk on it. - EJC

I wrote a rather lengthy article on my benchwork for the LGBMRRC Big Train Operators mag. To make it short and sweet, I use 2X4's for legs, 1X4's for bracing, and 1/2 inch plywood for the top. I fill up the entire room that my layout is in and if I need to get to far corners of the layout, I walk across the top. - KD

I have an around-the walls layout constructed from 1X4 legs and framing and 1/2" plywood decks. I used homosote and then vinyl roadbed. I am just starting the hardshell scenery. - NFW

No - RG

Benchwork. Use what you got. In my previous house I used a 16' Garage door panel, hollow core doors, 1x12's cut to fit 8' dia loop over the ref & freezer in the next room plus other curves around the basement, 1x6's for straight runs, 1x12's for storage yards.
All of this hanging from the floor joists on 1x2's. Screwed together with sheet rock screws and my trusty Makita.
A chop saw makes fast work of cutting pieces to fit curves. The 1x2's are adequate to support the RR from the floor joists. In one spot I had to remember to duck under. Only whacked my head 3-4 times before it sunk in that ducking was the thing to do. - JR

One question that continuously bothers me about indoor model railroading, is the constant notion that a 4 by 8 sheet of plywood is the only way to start a model railroad, in ANY scale.

I feel from many experiences in the hobby, that the sooner a person looks to open frame type construction, the sooner they can enjoy the opportunity to tackle scenery, grades, and the freedoms that this type of construction offers.
Yes, where yards and lots of tracks come together there is a need for table top type bench work, but anywhere else it is more trouble than it's worth, scenery wise. - FM

How many of you have freestanding table-type layouts versus shelf, or other around-the-outside wall layouts?

My layout goes around the garage and in front of the garage door with and island in the middle. It is shaped like the letter M with a single track going across the bottom. - EJC

Around the wall. I hired a commercial artist to do the back drop on the walls and ceiling. - NFW

Bookshelf style with extension out into room and then going back to benchwork and eventually suspended from ceiling. - RG

New house configuration will be around the wall, through the wall to the yard. - JR

What compromises did you have to make, curve-wise, to fit a RR in your room?

Max. curves is LGB 15000. - EJC

Thinking vertical instead of horizontal. I've got all my benchwork in place, I've got the max amount of track that will fit, now I'm looking at putting in Swiss viaducts on about 1/2 of the layout so I can have trains on top of trains. - KD

I have a 24' X 42' room so I didn't have to make many. All of the radii are 8' and 10' and I used the wide switches except in the yards. There I used the narrow switches. - NFW

Tight radius in one area, this means slow orders and carefull negotiation of trackage, just like the big guys. - RG

Old setup had to use 4' dia on one end. New setup will hopefully use minimum 8' on main line. Logging and Mining spurs will allow smaller. - JR

What size is your room?

18 Feet by 18 Feet 4 Inches. - EJC

Alas, only 20 foot by 14 foot. I have expansion plans though! - KD

24'X 42' with an adjacent 6' X 12' annex. - NFW

Hard to answer, using over half of a 65 x 24 basement. - RG

New basement will be L shaped, a 20x24 area with a 14 x 32 L leg, plus a 13x13 shop area. - JR

What "tricks" did you use to be able to get the curves you need (like building a basement RR so you decended INTO it or some such)?

I have two lift sections. - EJC

Hardest part was getting LGB 1600 turnouts to fit. I have one outer loop built that way for my RhB equipment, everything in the interior is 1100. Since I model European this isn't such a big deal. Plenty of shorter cars and engines so the tight curves don't look to bad. - KD

Didn't need to use any. - NFW

Built Large scale on top of HO benchwork. - RG

Cut and fit. I used Aristo and Bachmann track and switches on the old layout and will reuse where they work. Bought a few of the new wide switches, but have not tried them yet. Will make my own to fit where needed. Want to try 215 rail inside, will stick with heavy rail outside. Lots of varmints in them woods. - JR

Do you use drawbridges, duck-unders, etc., so you can get in and out of the RR operating area?

I use two lift sections. Each is 4 Feet long and is hinged at one end. - EJC

One drawbridge so I can get to the water pump and electrical panel, everything else I walk across. - KD

I have a double track deck drawbridge custom built by Eagle Wings Iron Craft that is about 4 feet long. It is at the entrance to the room and can be raised to let people through. - NFW

No - RG

One truss 6' bridge, Used George Schreyer's bridge as a basis, then modified to suit my wants. I expect I will build many more bridges and trestles in the new location. - JR

How do you deal with moisture, dust, etc.?

A/C and insulated double garage door - EJC.

Moisture: Dehumidifier. Dust: Cans of "air" from computer stores. - KD

Since it is a room especially built into the house for the trains, it has heat and AC so there is no moisture problem. Dust is removed with a feather duster. - NFW

Moisture not a problem. For dust, we vaccum. - RG

Same as 1:1 RR's did. - JR

What do you use to represent bodies of water? Plants and trees?

No water as of yet. Plants and trees are artificial and Dept. 56 items. - EJC

Right now we aren't too much into the realism. From a distance my water and trees look fine, up close they aren't "to scale." I use Playmobil plants and trees, and for water I have dark blue felt for the bottom with crinkled blue saran wrap overlayed. There's a pic on my website that shows this. - KD

I use the carpet to represent the river under the drawbridge and have the river painted on the wall behind the bridge. I bought several trees from Father Nature and they are great. I have also used small artificial "Christmas trees" sold at that time of year as pines. I have done a few trees with real tree branches and lichen. Lichen is used for shrubs and bushes. - NFW

Enviro Tec for water. Artificial trees for trees. - RG

No water inside. Outside looks promising for a natural watercourse to be worked with. Trees artificial inside, real outside. - JR

Anything special we need to know about shelf RRs, or overhead RRs?

No. - EJC

I'll tell ya when I get my overhead layout built ;-) - KD

Build it strong and wish for deeper basement for overhead track work. It pays to not be 6 feet tall. - RG

Learn to duck! - JR

Do you have a separate test track? ( Well, I didn't exactly ask it this way, but EJC answered as follows:)

I use a 4 Foot length of track mounted on a board with a LGB starter set transformer at one end and Kadee uncoupling magnet in the middle. I also use the Kadee gauge. - EJC

In my shop - NFW

No, that is what the basement track work is for. - RG

Will have in shop area - JR

Any other comments?

It is important to remember that you are trying to enjoy a hobby. Sometimes, you have to tell other people to put their opinion . . . . [comments deleted for brevity - ed.] - RG

Keep it fun, keep an open mind! - JR

The other thing is the misconception that the numerous "How to books" directed at the smaller scales, don't apply to LS..........more questions can be answered by these books than anyone seems to realise........size means very little when you get to the basics of the hobby, indoors.
Simple electrical, and electronics questions that keep cropping up on the lists, and chat groups can readilly be answered in the latest of the books put out by the big name publishers.
Newbys seem to fall into the trap of feeling they have to go with the expensive devices "Thrown" at them by LGB (As an example), when quite often a $2 simple radio shack switch would suffice........same goes for the current craze towards rail clamps.......which when you add them all up ARE NOT CHEAP. ....... - FM

George sez: As for a quick "insider's look"; plusses of inside:

• Can work on layout & run trains year round
• No problem with dirty track, as well as cleaning off leaves, etc.
• Vandals can't mess with my layout
• Equipment doesn't need to be carried out & in
• Rolling stock doesn't have to be as durable
• I can use traditional indoor scenery techniques, etc.

• -Usually confined to a smaller space, thus only small radii & short trains "allowed" (hey, there's a financial plus here!)
• If you like gardening . . . forget it!

Thanks, Earl, KayDee, Noel, Ric, John, Fred, and Stumpy, er George

Respond?

Anything special about the benchwork, scenery?

How many of you have freestanding table-type layouts versus shelf, or other around-the-outside wall layouts?

What compromises did you have to make, curve-wise, to fit a RR in your room?

What size is your room?

What "tricks" did you use to be able to get the curves you need (like building a basement RR so you decended INTO it or some such)?

Do you use drawbridges, duck-unders, etc., so you can get in and out of the RR operating area?

How do you deal with moisture, dust, etc.?

What do you use to represent bodies of water? Plants and trees?

Anything special we need to know about shelf RRs, or overhead RRs?

Do you have a separate test track?

Additional comments?

Appendix: Ric Golding's "Helix from You-Know-Where"

I had a rather mature HO layout built into bookcases, shop area and storage closet area of our basement. This was under construction for 20 years. In 1994 - 1996, I started looking at largescale. My thought was inside along the ceiling. My thoughts chaged to an HO Helix going up to the ceiling from the 40 inch high original three layer benchwork. The Largescale bug bit hard in the Winter of 1996-97 and that was the last time an HO train ran.

The Winter of 1997-98, I built a small storage track on the benchwork above the HO stuff to store 3 tracks of Largescale equipment and give me some place to test an engine. 1998 saw me bringing a track in through a basement window to keep from having to carry the trains outside. Since then, I have taken over a whole bunch of the basement creating a connection between the window entrance and the HO benchwork. I've tried to keep the grade at 2% and succeeded at 4%.

You can see some of this at our website. http://kvrwy.homestead.com/kvrwy_nw2_window.html (Ric's "normal" web page is http://kvrwy.homestead.com/home.html )

The HO Helix now supports the Largescale track and the HO track is still there. It became the "Helix from Hell", as I kept consuming more plywood and more basement. All people over 5ft 10 inches must sign a disclaimer, or turn over their favorite engine before entering. Hard hats are required and few people see this part of the railroad.

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